Andrew Samuels

Dr. Samuels is a Jungian analyst, professor, activist, and writer living in the United Kingdom. He will be recording an interview with us on March 3, 2017.

He would like to discuss his latest book, A New Therapy for Politics?, as well as a volume he's recently edited along with Emilija Kiehl and Mark Saban titled Analysis and Activism: Social and Political Contributions of Jungian Psychology, published by Routledge in 2016.

Here is his bio from the book:

"Andrew Samuels works internationally as a political consultant with politicians, parties and activist groups. He was co-founder of Psychotherapists and Counsellors for Social Responsibility in 1994 and Chair of the UK Council for Psychotherapy 2009-12. He is Professor of Analytical Psychology at Essex and Visiting Professor at New York, Goldsmith's, Roehampton and Macau Universities. His books have been translated into 21 languages and include Jung and the Post-Jungians (1985); The Plural Psyche (1989); The Political Psyche (1993); Politics on the Couch (2001); Persons, Passions, Politics, Psychotherapy (2014) and A New Therapy for Politics? (2015)."

Dr. Samuels will be lecturing at the C.G. Jung Institute Zürich on Social and Political Contributions of Jungian Psychology from February 10-12, 2017 and will be delivering the Society of Analytical Psychology's Annual Lecture at The Wellcome Collection in London on March 25, 2017 titled The Future of Jungian Analysis: Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities, Threats.

Please feel free to send in any questions you may have for him by filling out the contact form on this website.

The Wounded Healer

Quotes from Jungian analyst and future guest Andrew Samuels on the BBC Radio 4 show In Our Time from Dec. 2, 2004.

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FREUD & JUNG
 

AS: Let's imagine what you'd get if you went to see Jung. You'd certainly get somebody who knew he was a wounded healer. His ambitiousness, he knew about that. His crazy childhood, he knew about that. And I think he fashioned a really radical version of the therapy relationship out of these wounds. It was a much more equal relationship than the one that Freud established with his patients. It involved much more of a recognition that, in Jung's words, the doctor is in the treatment just as much as the patient is in the treatment. He said if anything positive happens in therapy it's because of the personality of the therapist not the techniques and theories. And modern therapists resonate with that. You heal because of who you are more than what you know and what you've been taught.

Your whole psychological life would be treated by Jung, responded to by Jung, very differently from the way Freud did. There's no on-high technical application of knowledge. There's no reading of the unconscious as a kind of bag of dirty tricks. And I mean dirty as in sexual repression, nasty, aggressive, destructive stuff. The unconscious is those things for Jung but it's also much more positive – a creative source that helps you live your life to its fullest extent possible. Your dreams are not attempts by your unconscious to deceive you. You can read your dreams much more easily in the Jungian vein than in the Freudian vein. If you dream about a king Freud might say, who is this king? If you dream about a king, for Jung he's going to say, which are the ruling or governing parts of your personality, where does your kingship reside? There's not an attempt to turn the images and symbols of the dream into something else.

ON INDIVIDUATION
 

AS: The idea of individuation is completely different from the idea of mental health or maturity. It is simply becoming yourself – different from other people, but never out of relationship with them. People often read Jung on individuation as saying you just have to become yourself. He doesn't say that. He says you have to become yourself in order to enter fully into relationships with other people. ...

There's a certain 'intelligence' in the unconscious from a Jungian perspective. You know what you need to do in life. The problem is there's a metaphorical wall or curtain between you and your knowledge of what you need to do in life. Therapy attempts to lift that. So, the solution is not found in the interpretations – based on knowledge – of the therapist or analyst. The solution is found within the subject, within the individual, who knew it all along, didn't know that they knew it, and can be helped to see that they do know it.

Q: And that is individuation?

AS: I think so, yes.

Q: How is it different from Freud's view of maturity then?

AS: Well, Freud said maturity, like normality, were ideal fictions. And in a sense individuation is also an ideal fiction. We don't really talk about individuation anymore. We talk about individuating or the individuation processes or something like that. You can be quite mad and quite outside the social norms – quite a disreputable or idiosyncratic person – and be said to be individuating. It is very different from a kind of normative moralistic approach which I think is implicit in Freudian psychoanalysis – there's a right way to do sex, there's a right way to be aggressive, there's a right way to relate to people, and so on. That is missing in Jung's notion of individuation.

You can listen to the full interview here.

We will record an episode with Andrew Samuels in October 2016.

Transcribed by Laura London

Lara Newton

Lara Newton at the front door of the Psychology Club Zürich.

FOLLOW-UP NOTES BY LARA NEWTON REGARDING HER INTERVIEW IN EPISODE #19:
 

1.  Remember when I said something about candidates working with a tutor on a paper, and the tutor helps the candidate to recognize their own complexes in relating to the material, etc.? Actually this kind of learning is huge in Jungian training. The candidates are often being shown by the analyst(s) how their complexes might get between themselves and their understanding of or recognition of the "other" (which will eventually be the analysand).

Over and over again in Jungian training, the analysts are helping the candidates to look at their own psychological experience of the "academic" material, of each other, and of the training analysts. We as candidates basically work out our complexes and complexed reactions to psychological circumstances and psychological material for years, during our training, so that once we have graduated as Jungian analysts we are able to recognize our own complexes at the very early stages of their activation. We also are able to recognize the alchemical gold or treasure within the complex, and thus use that recognition in our work as analysts. The complexes of our analysands and their transformation are the focus, and our own complexes need to not get in the way.

There is no academic program anywhere that offers what Jungian training offers. It would be impossible.

2.  In CW vol. 14, Mysterium Coniunctionis, paragraph 359 is where Jung actually remarks that water "kills and vivifies." My bad, I said "drowns."

3.  When speaking of the brother-sister relationship, I referred to a quote from Jung that I said I was paraphrasing (or at least I said that I knew I wasn't quoting it verbatim). Here it is, from CW vol. 12, Psychology and Alchemy: in paragraph 436, Jung says, "The brother-sister pair stands allegorically for the whole conception of opposites."

4.   In Deirdre of the Sorrows, Lara writes: "the story is also a tragic romance. Such romances always carry a deep significance for the people who hear them. Love that is fated to occur, no matter what obstacles stand in its way, and that is equally fated to end tragically, speaks to us of a psychological necessity. We must look closely at the nature of the lovers, what brings them together, and what tears them apart, in order to understand that necessity." ~L.L.

5.  Toni Wolff's essay, Structural Forms of the Feminine Psyche, discusses four feminine "types":  mother, hetaira, amazon, and the medial woman. I would say that Deirdre embodies the hetaira and the medial woman.

6.  Maria Prophetissa is sometimes referred to as the Mother of Alchemy because she is the first known female alchemist, and she is referred to with deep reverence by such alchemical greats as Zosimos of Panopolis. He also called her the Sister of Moses. These are considered to be metaphorical names, placing her in a position of profound authority where the Great Work is concerned. We don't know when she lived, but it is considered to have been one or two generations prior to the time when Zosimos lived (he was the end of the 3rd and beginning of the 4th century A.D.). Some of this information can be found in The Jewish Alchemists by Raphael Patai.

UPDATE: JUNE 25, 2016
 

7.  You had asked me if people could have a brother or sister complex even if they didn't have a brother or sister. I answered with information about this experience being archetypal, but there is another more experiential answer I'd like to add. Often girls or boys during early adolescence will experience a different kind of relationship with someone of the opposite sex. They may call it "platonic," or they may say they "can talk to him/her about anything." Sometimes they even say, "he's like a brother – the brother I never had." The brother-sister archetype has been awakened and a complex will form. The energy is waiting in the unconscious to be activated, as all archetypal energy is. 

8.  When talking about Deirdre, I spoke of one part of the myth but didn't remember it fully. It is the scene when Deirdre has not yet met Noise (her true love), and she sees her foster father slaughter an animal. Here is the correct sequence: she sees the animal's blood on the snow, and a Raven flies down to drink the blood. She says, "I could love a man with skin as white as snow, lips as red as blood and hair as black as the Raven." Her foster mother then says, "the warrior Noise is such a one." And Deirdre said she would not rest until she saw him.

Listen to Lara's interview in Episode #19

An Opportunistic Infection

DONALD TRUMP AS AN OPPORTUNISTIC INFECTION
by Robert Magrisso, M.D.
 

The Republican Party has been a sick, dysfunctional body for a long time. Denying reality and living within a narrative of its own creation, it cannot really participate in national governance and it cannot recognize its own illness. Donald Trump is the opportunistic infection that comes in the terminal phase. A weak bacterium that normally lives innocuously in the colon suddenly becomes a pathogen when the body is so weakened. It is political sepsis we are witnessing. I hope we have the strength as a nation to resist but it will require some painful soul searching on the parts of many who seem to have lost their souls.

Every physician knows that when the body is weakened by disease, very often the final, terminal illness is an opportunistic infection. The immune system, which protects against the myriad of bacteria, viruses and fungi to which we are routinely exposed, but can easily fight off, is so weak, that otherwise innocuous bacteria becomes potentially lethal.  In the 1970s when I was doing my internal medicine residency, one rotation was at a VA Hospital.  The veterans who had started smoking during World War II had so much lung cancer that there was one ward just for lung cancer patients.  It was always full and there would be deaths daily. As trainees, we routinely did so called “fever work ups” on patients with a fever.  This included blood cultures, which were looking for bacteria in the blood stream.  Almost everyone who died of lung cancer, had positive blood cultures terminally.  They technically died of sepsis due to pneumonia rather than the lung cancer itself.

I bring this up because Donald Trump has seemed to me to be an opportunistic infection, infecting the Republican Party and, by extension, our entire body politic.  The Republican Party has been ill for a long time.  One could date the nomination of Sarah Palin for Vice President of the United States as one clearly visible sign.  Her incredible unqualifiedness, born out by subsequent history, was like seeing visible skin rash reflecting deeper pathology.  President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney may go down as the worst executive pairing in modern history.  The Tea Party wing of the party is reactionary in the extreme, having no ideas to meet the challenges of the 21st century, interconnected world in which we live but simply reacts against anything the Democrats support.  Ungrounded in basic facts, lost in narrative of their own creation, they have nothing constructive to offer any thinking person.  The business wing seems only interested in preserving and extending its power and using that power to keep intact or extend its share of the pie.  The disconnect between what the party says, its rhetoric and its actions is so great as to make one seriously wonder if mental illness diagnoses apply.  At some point, the people who voted Republican were going to realize this and they weren’t going to move to the Democratic Party. 

So we have a weakened party.  We have a dysfunctional government due to this weakened party.  There is no sound leadership in the party.  The nominees for President did not, in my opinion, include a single qualified person.  This is the weakened political body, a body susceptible to an opportunistic pathogen.  Donald Trump is someone who never in the past would be taken seriously as a presidential nominee.  He is like the bacteria in your colon.  They have a place, a necessary place in the scheme of things but not in government.  He is a self promoting businessman of questionable success, an entertainer, an insult artist, a narcissistic joke actually.  But now, he is dangerous to the weakened political body and he can’t be stopped.  Taking his script from the demagogue playbook, he has preyed upon the fears, distrust, betrayals of people.  When I read how the Republican leaders have tried and failed to stop him, I can’t help but think that they have been the disease that has weakened the body.  Even if one is a “liberal” or Democrat, one needs a strong, relevant Republican Party.  A party who has serious ideas, who really cares about the people of this country, who is aware that the world has changed and is not trying to turn back time with different ideas than the Democrats would be great. 

Hopefully, the American people as a whole are a healthy enough “body” that can destroy this pathogen and new health can be restored.  However, how many other nations have had demagogues take power when their political body was sick?  Just as having an opportunist terminal infection is the oldest way to die (think of the time before antibiotics), getting a demagogue to take over is the oldest political solution of a diseased body politic.

Robert Magrisso, MD

This paper was referenced by Dr. Tom Lavin in Episode #17

Special thanks to Dr. Magrisso for allowing publication of his paper on this website.

Who's Coming?

Long-Eared Owl by Brad Wilson, at an exhibit I saw in Santa Fe in September 2014.

Notes from my talk with Jungian analyst Russ Lockhart:

1.  The caption on the Zarathustra Seminar photo reads, "Front row, left to right: William Sanford, Janet Dallett, Suzanne Wagner, Deborah Wesley, Rose Emily Rothenberg, Hilde Kirsch; back row, left to right, Russell Lockhart, Max Zeller, Charles Zussman, James Silber, Weyler Greene."

2.  Hilde Kirsch was his personal analyst. The Kirsches {James & Hilde} and the Zellers {Max & Lore} started the Psychology Club in LA in 1944, which later became the C.G. Jung Institute of Los Angeles.

3.  His video shoots with Suzanne Wagner were how Matter of Heart came to be.

4.  He was introduced to Jung when he was 13 years old, by a man who was trying to turn him into a Communist. Among the man's propaganda was a copy of Jung's Modern Man in Search of a Soul.

5.  Hal Stone was his wife's first analyst. My former analyst is currently writing a book about him.

6.  What/who told him to become a Jungian analyst ... and who told him not to?

7.  "What I knew was best for me was coming up in my dreams."

8.  "The purpose of Jungian analysis is to connect you with your unconscious and the collective unconscious underneath that."

9.  Regarding world affairs: "A lot of our conscious efforts are not really solving the problems – not even taking into account what the problems are."

10.  It is important to see, to recognize, the continuity between synchronicities.

11.  Jung's principle of the coming guest.  ... 'Coming' points to eros as the major factor that we're missing, and it needs to be developed. ... The great work that lies before us in the future as humans is to develop eros.

12.  Experiencing it {what?} primarily through our dreams and through art and the artist. The artist in each of us. Relating to every aspect of our life in an artistic way.

13.  Dreaming is crucial to proper functioning – of the immune system, physiologically, in our capacity to relate.

14.  Why people don't remember their dreams. ... The memory cannot consolidate what you're experiencing in the dream. ... Stress and cortisol. ... The neurological basis of imagination.

15.  In Psyche Speaks, he wrote about how we're losing our connection to animals. He then relates to us a story about how an owl saved his life.

16.  Gilles Quispel – what he said about mystery. "Shhh..."

17.  "Eros always gives birth to something that is different than what logos generates."

18.  Keats, the poet, in a letter to his brother, wrote about 'negative capability.'

19.  "It begins by attending to your dreams."

20.  "Dreams are one of the few things that have not been subjected to commodification."

21.  Edward Bernays, Freud's nephew, was the inventor of modern public relations and propaganda. A way for the elites to manipulate the public.

22.  "Our desires are manipulated into monetizing for the elite. That's what's happening ... at every level of society ... basically all over the world."

23.  "The dream is not yet commodified. We don't have to pay for dreams. ... You don't have to pay any money to have your dream. That's one of the last areas in human experience that's not being commodified. So, to me, that's the antidote: paying attention to your dreams. Spend time with them."

24.  So what can we do with our dreams? He explains.

25.  "It became clear to me that all dreams are about the future. ... Use the dream as the impetus for writing an new story."

26.  Alice O. Howell was an astrologer and a poet and a storyteller. She was not an analyst. But she was on the faculty of the C.G. Jung Institutes of Los Angeles and Chicago.

27.  He gave Alice a kick in the ass. "She just needed a push. A kick in the pants, as it were."

28.  "One of the things I point out in Psyche Speaks is how important in eros acting is. Acting on the eros impulse. That kick in the pants was an erotic act between Alice and I. ... An eros act. It generated. It generated."

29.  "I called it erotic because I want erotic to be much larger than its usual conception."

30.  "Power has so usurped eros. Logos has so usurped eros."

31.  "I like Graham Jackson's 'war on eros' idea because that's the one thing that can really counter so much of what's wrong with the world today."

32.  "Eros does not recognize boundaries."

33.  Dreams are the source. The resource.

34.  "Here's a little story about Edward Edinger. And pardon me if I bring along James Hillman into this." ... The story ends with, "Such is the real back and forth between analysts." Hilarious.

35.  M. Esther Harding: He once asked her Freud's question, "What do women want?" Her answer prompted him to write Psyche Speaks.

36.  My favorite Esther Harding quote is on the Laura page of this website.

37.  Harding's answer relates to power and how consumed most men are with power.

38.  Eros is "the general principle of relatedness."

39.  What are men looking for in their pursuit of power? "The solution, or the cure, for inadequacy." {That's it right there, ladies and gentlemen.}

40.  "I have to say, rejecting power is not the same as eros. Not having power is not the same as eros."

41.  "The opposite of power is not eros; the opposite of power is powerlessness."

42.  "Power is vertical; eros is horizontal."

43.  Hollywood people, sports people, the rich and famous, when he worked with them at his practice in LA, it became boring. Partly because the narcissism is so extreme. You could be in the room with a person and essentially not be able to breathe. ... "The people were so far away from being themselves that it started to have more of a tragic quality."

44.  Why does he use the word 'boring' to describe working with celebrities? Because "the progress toward becoming real was really slow."

45.  On his book, Words as Eggs, what generated both the most flack and the most comments?

46.  "One of the qualities of a good relationship is when each partner can fully reveal themselves to the other. No secrets."

47.  What did he say this about? "Obviously that's an ego solution to a problem that goes much deeper and so it's not a solution at all."

48.  "A great deal of relationship problems come back to this one issue of not telling."

49.  I kept saying, "You said..." when I should have been saying, "You wrote..."

50.  Below is a quote from Dr. Lockhart's April 4, 2016, blog post, Ragnarök & the Coming Guest.

In his 1960 letter to Herbert Read, Jung called what was needed, was a ‘great dream.’ Jung said that such a great dream has always spoken through the artist as ‘mouthpiece’ proclaiming the arrival of the coming guest. It is the artist’s love and passion (the human eros) that needs to be listened to in order to proclaim and welcome the coming guest (the heavenly Eros). In my view, it was the artist in each of us that would be the source of what was necessary to welcome the coming guest. But we seem far from such a realization and manifestation.

The earlier Freud expects the arrival of the heavenly Eros. The later Jung expects the arrival of the coming guest. I think both great men are talking about the same thing.

Thus, in the face of the final Ragnarök, which seems ever more certain, one may either give up in despair, entertain oneself to death, or manifest ever more fully the human Eros that is love and passion and generative creativity. One must perhaps, celebrate both the final Ragnarök and welcome Eros, the coming guest.
— Russ Lockhart, "Ragnarök & the Coming Guest," Apr. 4, 2016

You can listen to the entire interview in Episode #16 of Speaking of Jung.

Brad Wilson's exhibit, Avian, at photo-eye in Santa Fe.